#19 Goondiwindi to the Green: Luke Brown

In this episode, we dive deep into Luke Brown’s story—the highs, the lows, and everything in between.

Raised in a small Australian country town, Luke built a successful life on the outside—a thriving business in the agriculture industry, a strong family foundation, and lifelong friendships. But behind the success, there was struggle.

As a young man, Luke battled a drinking problem—blackouts, trouble with the law, and nights he couldn’t even piece back together. In a culture that shrugs things off with “you’ll be right, mate,” accountability was hard to face, and even harder to accept.

This episode explores the turning points—losing a mate, watching a close friend battle terminal illness, and the emotional weight that forced Luke to question everything. Despite his success, he felt stuck… like he was living the same day over and over.

“It’s not enough for me.”

That realisation became the catalyst.

What started with running and small wins in social golf turned into something much bigger—the Going Pro journey. A bold mission to qualify for the 2027 Australian Open at 44, using discipline, purpose, and public accountability to change his life.

Now off the drink and training full-time, Luke is all in. 

This is a conversation about identity, pressure, mateship, loss, and what it really takes to take control of your life—when most people would settle.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to Burning Bridges Podcast. My name is Timana. And I'm Renee. We started this podcast through my own life experiences and a journey to healing. I have always been curious of what others have gone through and the moments that defined them.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

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SPEAKER_01 0:26

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SPEAKER_02 0:32

The following episode may contain discussions of sensitive and potentially distressing topics. Viewer discretion is strongly advised. This content is intended for mature audiences and may not be suitable for all listeners for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

G'day, I'm Luke Brown. I'm doing a documentary called Going Pro, and I've been very fortunate enough to be invited here today by Renee and T to do a podcast with Burning Bridges.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Thanks for being here in the green. I I actually, when I reached out to you, I reached out to you, but I don't expect to get a message back. And the next day I was like, yes, he's messaging me back. And um, yeah, because I've been looking at what you're doing with your documentary going pro with the golf to go make the Australian Open in 2027. And I've been following your your journey with that, and you're up to episode seven, is that right? Yeah, yeah, it'll be released next week. Yeah, yeah. So by the time this comes out, probably yeah, perfect. It'll be out, it'll be out already.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yeah, I'm really intrigued in your journey and and what you're doing. So your age, you're in your 40s.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

45 this year.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

45 this year, and I've never, I don't know if anyone, if there is, that's gone pro in any type of sport in the 40s.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

No, I wouldn't. I I had a quick search, it's very hard. I'm not the best researcher, but no, I I I wouldn't think, with my back my lack of background in golf, that it's been done. Um, there has been older fellas that have won and done things when channel seven got hold of it. They put people have done it before and they put Phil Mickelson up there in the same article, and I was like, putting me in this category is Phil Mickelson is crazy. But thanks, Channel 7. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? But but but no, I I would say there's good reason for it um for sure, but but at the end of the day, um, you know, like I'm serious about it, but you just got to do the work and and then see where it takes you.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Yeah, well, we'll dive more into that um towards the end, but let's start with where you're born and uh where you grew up and what your childhood was like.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Yeah, I was born in Maury, just over the Queensland, New South Wales border um farming community. And I was only really born there. Mum mum and dad were working on a farm um at a place called North Star. And um, so so it was farming community. My my grandfather went went out that way uh after the war and um and and they farmed wheat and livestock, sheep, uh, on very marginal country. And that we were I was on the farm until about four or five years of age, and then that was that that was no longer a an option to grow. Dad sort of moved away then off the farm. And um, so I grew up in Gunda Windy for for most of my life. Dad worked within the ag space. And growing up in Gunda Windy was, you know, looking back, very fortunate, you know, country town, Australia back in the day, you know, it was rugby league and cricket. That was it. There was no other sports. And um, and that was cool, it was simple. And it was uh it was the having the boys around, it was it was good, you know, riding bikes to training, you know, riding bikes to school, just the just the standard stuff that you you you you you're lucky enough to do as a kid, hanging out down the river. And yeah, it was it was it was all sent, it was very competitive, uh, very competitive environment. I think anything we did, whether it was throwing a tennis ball at each other, rocks, like threw rocks at each other every day. Like, as my kids say, I say, but you kids, like I didn't get a phone till I was 24 years old, you know. I mean, I said and they said, What would you do when you were younger? I was like, Well, there's this one trick that got me once, and I never forgot it. My mate threw the rock up in the air, and I was like, What is he doing? I'm just what just kept an eye on it because it was coming at me. While I kept an eye on it, he's launched another one real fast, hit me in the throat, and I never forgot that day. I thought, oh, okay, we're playing dirty. You know what I mean? That's how we're gonna be throwing rocks now, so so and and I've used that trick many times on on my own kids with tennis balls or something, a bit less less violent. But but it was it was it was really competitive bombing. I I was on the sporting front, I wasn't a very naturally talented uh sports person. I was pigeon-toed and and and you know, probably la I I wasn't aggressive at all. I remember watching a video when I was about 10 that dad had filmed playing rugby league, and and and I'm and I was everyone had tackled I'll mate three blokes on a on the the the fella, and then I come in fourth player and sort of just put my hand on him, and dad and mum start laughing at it. That's it, Lukey, good work, you know, and I and that was probably a pivotal moment for me to realise that shit, they're mocking me. Like I I I I did not tackle that boat, you know what I mean? And so in a small country town where a big focus was on sport and and that was a big part of our community. I I really then probably before I was already, but I became obsessed with just visualization and and manifest dating, which I didn't really know until looking back now. Like I was I would put I was not that good of a cricketer. I remember a girl made the rep team, Megan White, who went on to play for Australia. But I remember dad driving us over to watch Gunda Indy, and I'm like, why am I here? Like I'm not in the team, like this sucks. And then here's Megan, she's out there. A girl's in the team. Like back then, that would now you'd probably be okay with it because you'd be like, you know, there's more opportunities. But back then it was just unheard of. And I remember thinking to myself again, I'm thinking, oh I'm shit, like I'm so shit. And and I just remember just in those little those little years where there was little challenges at home, my escape was to go into this mindset of playing a test match on my own, and I would bat from one to eleven, and then and I'd go at the back and I'd just bowl at the tramp, and or with the football, I'd be just kicking it all the time. And then over the space of a couple of years, my my ability just improved. And then all of a sudden I was captain of the the team, the rep team, and then I was scoring runs, and then in the league, I started learning how to tackle, and so then I was starting to, you know, I was starting to do all right in the footy. And so that was that was that's when I think back of my childhood out in Gunda Windy, it it it goes it goes it goes to sport, it it goes to the competitive, yet productive nature. Um you know, there was it it was it was yeah, it was just it was pretty it was pretty good. I was pr I'm very grateful when I hear some of mum's stories from growing up in Crenella down in Sydney. I I feel very fortunate that Gunda Windy was the place where I grew up because it just or most of my type mates today, and I was speaking to two of them on the way here, like they're from primary school, you know, like they're like we got a group and they're all primary school mates from Gunda Windy that are now wherever. And I think that's very fortunate because you can tell them blokes to get, you know, you can you can call them anything, you know, we can really get into it, and it's not gonna change anything.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

It's just like you accept it as you who you are, and you know, we we need to be respectful, we need to keep growing, we are, but yeah, so I think that that was a that was a beautiful is that then banter or uh is you can call each other out without getting offended.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

We we're we're probably calling each other out more now than than ever before. And I think I think I've played some part in that in in the journey I'm on with going pro and and this this change in my life. And I also think another like one of my best mates, if not my best mate, he's he's battling a terminal illness. So he him him and I yeah, he's fucking you. I've never really spoken about it. Um but uh it's just a strange thing. Like he he ran away and said, you know, and it happens, it's not uncommon. It happens all the time. Your father in law just said, Oh, these two of these mates have got it. So but it was more it was more just a real turning point because that was before I started going pro sorry guys, but I'd but I'd been on this journey of of like uh discovery of myself from as long as I can remember, you know. Like I'd I'd been on this journey of what is this, what is this whole thing about, you know, like what what is the point of life? If I'm you know, so anyway, I'm probably getting a bit off track uh and not getting on not not sticking to the timeline. Um but it but it yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

No, yeah, go you're fine, yeah. You're fine.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Yeah, so he he's probably been a massive because because through him battling that, uh that that has that has made me and like we've spoken daily for the last three and a half years. So we've we've we've we've been on this roller coaster, you know. And um I think the the the way he's what he's had to what he continues to deal with, like the knowing that because the problem with what he's got too is even if he goes to the hospital and they say, Oh, it's looking really good, like it it there's no cure for multiple myeloma. And uh he he's read this article where if uh a guy got cured and uh and then a year later he was dead. So no matter what result he gets, it in his head, it it's always just it's up to someone else. And he's doing everything he can. So he's he's run and he's been off the piss. And so yeah, he he he got off the alcohol straight away. And then so I went off it with him because I was trying to build my build his trust, build trust so that he could open up and and and we could try and you know try and digest it and and and and work out are we fighting it, are we accepting it? And and that and that's been a massive learning, and and we're still learning, and our relationship's just been getting stronger and stronger. And we've we've we've been pushing each other harder and harder, and and like it our bond is getting tighter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

What a beautiful friendship.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

It is, and then I think through that and through his story, definitely the rest of our mates, we've we've now talking more than ever. And and you know, some of the boys are a bit busier, so they're having less chat, you know. They I've I've learned I was thinking, I wonder why Nipey's not saying too much, and oh, you know, he's flat out at work, he's like pushing hard. And but but the comms between the boys and the amount of exercise they're doing and the and the amount of piss that they're not drinking, like it's it's evident, like it's we know it, we know it to be true. Like we know when we go to these events now, we're going to run 120k over four days, over 5,000 metres, like we're going to do this, and then the boys don't want to run their cool. They're just coming and they're just supporting and they're just pushing, and and that's how we're hanging out. And and that's very different to getting on the piss and whatever else that might go with that, and then and then decisions that are made or conversations that are had that get out of control, and really you don't really care about what you were just talking about, but you were pissed, so you end up having an argument about something that doesn't mean anything to you. So it's a beautiful, it is a beautiful time, I think. Right now, a lot I remember hearing when I was young and battling with with with my own head that life begins at 40. I remember hearing it, and I remember going, fuck, I hope so. You know, I really hope so. And I don't agree with it because it's already begun like you're already in it, but but I get the anal, you know, I get I get it. And um, but but I'd say there's been a lot of signs to me now that it's definitely you you'll you you you yeah, it starts to make a lot more sense than than what it does when you're a bit younger.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

I'm literally in the 50s now. I'm in there.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Yeah, I'm not looking forward to hitting 50, I've got to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

It just begins. Yeah, I feel as like that's happened for me at 50. Yeah, yeah. So don't be afraid of turning 50, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

No, I I I I won't be, mate. I no, I I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, I'm really trying to enjoy the ride, but it just seems to go so fast. Like every single day, without a shadow of a doubt. I don't it's not groundhog day because I it's not like I'm I'm trying to reflect on I'm journaling a lot now, more than ever, to to recognise what I did do today, you know, and to try and get into that mindset that I'm gonna do that same thing tomorrow. So just to stay in that that that engaged center, yeah. But yeah, it just seems to go so fast, and you know it does. Like I wake up and most days I go, well, this day's gonna be over real fast. You know, and then I think, why have I gotta think that? You know, why can't I just, you know, what is this? Just be happy, just don't overthink. And what what is all this? You know, so I'm on that journey. Like I'm I'm I'm definitely in the best position to assess it. And and I'm and I'm 100 the best I've ever been mentally, you know, physic, physically, uh I would have been much stronger at 18, I'm I'm sure. The back and all the body was better then, and you know, all that, but but definitely that lets you know too, doesn't it? Like the body, it it tells you you're getting old, like there's no doubt about that.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

This is going back to your childhood and uh what was your schooling like? Have you got siblings?

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Yeah, I've got a brother and a sister younger than me, Case two years, Courtney seven years. Um yeah, schooling, mate. We were at a we were at a little Catholic school in Gundawindi. Um we we we were that well that was a that was a good little school. Um, you know, there was two schools, and mum and dad sent us there. Uh and then went to high school in Gundhi for three years, and then and then um, yeah, a little funny story which you know may not be worth listening to or not. But dad, we we we we didn't have dad was working his ass off and he was trying to give us opportunities and he wanted us wanted to send us away to boarding school to to broaden our horizons. And I remember I remember him coming home one day and he's like, Right, oh Luke, you you're gonna sit for scholarships. I said, academic? And he said, Yeah, academic. I said, Dad, mate, in case you haven't realized like I'm not I'm not an academic, I'm not that smart. And he goes, mate, I don't want to hear it. They're multiple choice. I said, okay. He said, so mate, you know, you're a chance. They're multiple choice. And I remember thinking, whatever. So I sat for like five schools straight up, like whenever it was, it was a mission for them to take me around and go and sit for the lo and behold, I didn't get one. You know what I mean? And I remember reading the questions, going, nope, no idea. B or maybe two D's, like or maybe I'll go A, you know. And I remember just thinking, what a waste of time. But through that process. And hats off to Mum and Dad. Like, there was a guy that passed away uh and from out our way, and he left money in a bursary, so I so I got a scholarship to Southport down the Gold Coast. And and then in the end, my brother went there a couple of years later and and he got it for like nearly nothing. So we were very fortunate, mum and dad, you know, to get us to to head out of Gundhi for a few years and and try and expand. Expand. I ended up going back to Gunda Windy when I finished school and and just and just worked worked there on a cotton picker and then worked for Grain Corp in a in a harvesting site role. And then it wasn't until I went overseas with my girlfriend at the time, and then I moved back to Brisbane and and pretty much I didn't go back to Gunda Windy until probably well, we went there when we started the business in in about 15 years ago. And then, yeah, but we left there probably 10, 11 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

What was that like for you going from the country to the Gold Coast in Southport?

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Oh mate, it was a spin out. Like I remember, I remember, I remember distinctly, um, you know, I I it was a spin-out, it was it was overwhelming. And I and I wanted to go home when when I got there. And and and not being an academic, I found it was like they were speaking Japanese in class. And I'd just ring Mum and I'd say, Mom, like, I've got to get out of this class. And she'd be like, You'll be right, just do your best. I said, Mom, they're speaking Japanese. She's like, Oh, you can't understand a word? I said, Nah, she goes all right. We'll pull you out of Mass B and put you into Mass C or whatever. And I just sit there, I was sort of lost to the to the academic system for sure, like like like like a lot of kids, but but really wanted to play footy, you know, like you know, what first 15 was was was what I was one I wanted to do, and and I was lucky enough to get two years in the first, and and really that was I I'd just sit in class just thinking about what I did on the weekend or or what's coming up this weekend. I'd just stare at the ibises, or if it was cricket, it was the same thing. And but footy really, it was it was a highlight, you know. I mean, there was big crowds, you got to run out in front of them. It was just it was it was sick. It was it was that was great. I was very grateful for the for the exposure that that mum and dad afforded us and and and their their desire to try and give us opportunities, which was which was really cool. Yeah, but it was a challenge. Gundawindy was a very different place, like in Gunda Windy, no one didn't matter who you are, like you, you we're all part of the team. Like but then you get up there, and it was a bit more of this like sort of ego was was was you know, you used to get away with murder being in the first. I remember just I just get away with heaps in the house, you know, in the boarding house. It was like, oh, we just won. I'm going out and and the boarding master be like, yeah, that's all right, that's right. You know, you know, and I was just like, oh, this is good. So I started really enjoying being away from home when when I made the first and started life started getting life was pretty cruisy back then. Party life, eh? And then partying. But if I look back at how I was partying then before I was 18 and the drinking I was doing and how I was acting, my ego was sort of out of control, you know what I mean? It was like you you you were you you thought you were bigger than what you were, and and I'm sure that's just a kid, you know, growing up and whatnot, but but definitely it then started to spiral then when I got home and and you just you were playing footy and you came home, and I remember coming back to Gundy, and I remember the energy, I could feel energy around me was really positive everywhere I turned. And then once I started playing up a bit, I could feel a shift. Like I can't, I got I could. Like it's not just reflecting now, but I could feel it at the time. You know, you started hanging out with the boys that you know were a little bit looser, and you know, you start you're drinking heavy before a game, you know, and then you even I mean one game, I remember taking taking drugs before a game, and I remember just being out there, my heart rate was just through the roof, and I just remember, yeah, it was I couldn't catch the ball, like my brain and my hands wouldn't work. That was just like I was 5'8, so I was like, Here's the ball, and just kept dropping it, and I remember thinking, wow. So it was really bad. So it was a really bad time. It was the greatest time of my life in some aspects, playing footy locally and just the parties and and and the mates and and all that sort of stuff, but but through it, there was there was a lot of there was a lot of down days where I was keeping it all under wraps because that's what you did, you know.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

How old were you then?

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Oh between eight between set 17 and and and and probably 20.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

That was that was a period where I was out out in Gundhi. And um, yeah, and then I went overseas.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

You actually worked on the farms and stuff while you were there playing footy.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Yeah, I yeah. Cotton picking up, yeah, dad.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Always used to that hard labour then.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Yeah, work ethic um has never been a a problem. Like I think dad, dad and mum definitely instilled that. Like they were they were from they were blue collar, and it was, you know, I remembered I said to dad, oh, and when I was at school, I'm gonna go to cool and gather with the boys, you know. He's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, Yeah, well, that's what can I? Like, that's what everyone's doing. He said, No, mate, huh? You're cotton chipping. And mumber thinking, mate, like everyone's gonna. He's like, I don't give a shit, mate. And and I remember like we fronted each other. I remember it was it was I was scared. I was like, if I hit that, I'm gonna cop it. Like, but I wanted to. And he held firm. And I think it was a very good lesson for me to learn at that time. And I think he was very right in in standing his ground and saying, mate, you're working because we can't afford It and there's no way you're going down there, and I'm gonna pay 2,000 bucks for you to come drink piss for a week with your mates, you know. I mean, I don't think he saw that as being anything that would set me up for life, and he would be correct, yeah. So I think that's where the work ethic come from. Yeah, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

And you went overseas, where'd you go?

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Yeah, mate. We went to uh America, that was that was interesting, and then and then London, and then Kate and I, we we we busted up when we got back. Um, but but that was good. I mean, I remember getting back from overseas and feeling like I'd become more confident and and more more worldly, and and I felt I felt I felt I remember feeling pretty good at that time within within within within myself, even though it was pretty loose when we were over there. And then come back. Really just from back from overseas to about 24 was probably the wildest times, you know. There was that's what's a that's what's sort of spoken about in episode one, you know, those shots of me on, you know, like that was before I had a phone, and it was it was like Thursday to Sunday. So you'd work Friday, but you'd probably have a fair few Thursday, you'd get work out of the way, and um, and then you'd you'd uh you would you would be on it for for the rest of the weekend, and you'd get to Monday and you'd still probably be feeling alright. Tuesday you'd be starting to be in a bit of a dark place, Wednesday probably pretty dark hole. Thursday starting to come out of the dark hole, and good timing because you're gonna do it again. And and so that was that was pretty solid. I remember to to give you an example of how loose it was, and you know, it's all relative, but I remember back home, one of our friends had a friend over, and she said, Oh, she just wants a packet of smokes. And I remember thinking, I've been drinking heaps, and I said, Yeah, I'll just drive up to the night house like a K away. I don't know why he wouldn't walk. Oh, it's probably like three K's away. Here to there, sweet, 24 hours, no chance of getting done by the cops. So I go around there, it's closed. So then I go up, go to Indrapilly, and here lo and behold, here's a the wave and everyone in, and I just said to myself, I'm too drunk, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not stopping because I'm thought it'll be over. So I try to go around them and cause all kind of chaos, and I end up here, you know, and and and lo and behold, like I get a fine, I I get done for drink driving, and this was the the the the the level of stupidity and like delusion I had. I was like, I lost the ticket, and then I just I just ignored it. Like I just thought, well that's on them. They shouldn't have given me a ticket drunk. And then my mum rang me one day and she said, There's two police officers here, they got a warrant out for your arrest, you know, and I was like, what? Anyway, they stitched me up. I spent three days in the in the watch house and went to court on the Monday morning, and and there was a whole story around that. But it it was it it was definitely one of those moments where and the boys I was in the watchhouse with for three days, there were some some some shady characters in there that probably deserved to be in there. I didn't feel like I did, but but looking back now, just just no boundaries and just just loose and just just just just up and down hard, you know, uh on this this style of life. And I and I and I'm grateful for it because I think I'm glad to be where I am today and and doing what I'm doing, and and maybe I wouldn't be if I didn't go through those those times. Were you just hanging around the wrong people or you just felt no, I don't, I just didn't my mum and dad were very open about things and and and um and and I think that was a good thing in a lot of ways, but I think I just think I just liked it was more of an escape. I think I I I was I think I was just I I was insecure and and you know I found in those binging periods, like I just wasn't having any, I just was not not where I was before I was, and it was just like, oh, this is sweet. Like I love the loose, just cruise here, meet randoms, end up in their house, and you just you don't even know who they are. The next day you're like, I don't even know what their names are. I don't even know what we were talking about. And you're on their couch, and you just and then, but then it just kept happening. And I think it was just just escape. And and I think it just, I think I just preferred it. But then the the whole the hole that you'd be in, it was it was it was pretty solid. Like, but but again, you wouldn't, you didn't, you just it was just it was just it it I was probably looser than a lot of the boys I was hanging around. Like, I think a lot of the fellas have better memories through those times than me. For some reason, I I I would enter blackout, you know, especially in in it with alcohol. You I would I would enter the blackout and then you'd go, well, what time was that? And they'd say, mate, that was at four. And then you'd think back and you'd like, oh, remember when this happened? They go, Yeah, yeah. I said, What time was that? I said, Oh, that'd be like nine, ten. And I'd be thinking that was the last thing I could remember. So then I'm out in public space for hours, or if even if it's private, but you just you you I don't even I'd yeah, I'd love to know what blackout means scientifically, or or what what it means, but I know it's not good because I know I know that the brain is actually not in a good state because it's you just and that was the problem, just no off switch. Like you'd start feeling pissy, and you'd want to chase that feeling, so then you'd you'd get into the heavier drinks and you were fast drinker because you had a bit of social anxiety, you know, and all of a sudden it's just you know, and you just spend years so that that that was a period of time, and then met Morgan and um and just slowly started quite quickly, really, in a lot of aspects, because I was ready. Like a mate passed away uh around about the same time I met Morgues, and um and and I remember talking to him a lot because I remember when we when the coffin hit the cemetery floor, there was this crazy wind that picked up, and we had to grab the marquee that his parents were under. And that's when I it's probably the first and probably nearly the only sort of connection to something that strongly I've had, and I just went, well, like maybe, maybe there's you know, so I just started talking to Timmy and just asking him for help. And I think through that call it whatever, like my wife saying that that was you starting to, you know, you that was you putting out there what you wanted. So yeah, just started started, I started that a path. If I look back, that that's a pivotal, that I feel like that's a pivotal time in my life where it was where I was like, I just wanted I just wanted out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

When you were talking about that you were drinking to escape, but you also mentioned that you had insecurities. Were you escaping your insecurities or was there something else? I think so.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Yeah, yeah, I think so. It was was I think I was always just you know, not it was just a front, like deep deep down, you you you probably, you know, you you weren't yeah, probably just wasn't looking at myself favorable. I think I think it got worse. Like I think when you'd hear things that you do, you you and you couldn't comprehend doing them. It was hard not to take that personally, and you and your mates around you say, Ah mate, no, you were fine, you know. And it was like, and then when I'd quit drinking, I remember quitting drinking for like three, six months snints over a period of years. And I remember people saying, Oh mate, what are you doing? You'll be nah, we all have we all do this and we all do that. And I remember thinking, well, it just didn't feel like that.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Just felt like I I was the one I was doing stupid, the stupidest shit, and and I just couldn't couldn't find so I just yeah, I just I suppose it was just the insecurities and and when your mate passed away, and that was a you know pitiful moment for yourself to realise that that's that's not the the life that you want to be in. Yeah. So what what'd you do from there?

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Yeah, I started asking for help. Like I'm I'm sure I'd seen some psychologists before that, or at least one. Like when I did that drink driving episode where I tried to just will it away, you know. Um, I I think I went and saw a psych through that because I was gonna defend myself in court by saying I was going to AA, you know, and it's just like just so delusional. I just really was just over it. Like I was just really over the this this emotional um strain that I just kept finding myself on, and I just just wanted out, like I just wanted to settle down. I just I remember asking for for a woman, like I just wanted a woman, I just was just wanted to be stable, I just wanted to not go out. Like I that maybe I was thinking that was the answer. It was like I remember asking, I was like, and then I went and studied marketing, and I was like, I I had made I'd put it out there that I wanted to find my wife, and I did, you know, it was it's it's weird, and that's why with this journey I'm on now, it's like things have happened when I really asked for it, and I really wanted change. I got change. It might not have happened quickly, but if I look back at it, it it's like I was asking and I was pushing and I wanted it, and and and I didn't know what to do. But definitely met Morgan, and I think I think once you know, we had a we that was a challenging little period between the two kids that were born Daisy with my ex Kate and Lily with Morgues. And through that we all we all had a tough gig and we all worked our way through it, and I think that started to build confidence too, the the the three of us, Kate, Morgues, and I with with with our girls. And and that started to build some confidence within, and and I was like very grateful. And then I think Morgan started studying psychology, and I and I remember when she started studying psych, I remember, I remember just challenging sections of that degree of with with what I was challenged with, and then it was just like it just things just it started to explain uh a lot of stuff a lot a lot clearer to me. And it wasn't like I used to think psychologists could read your mind, like a lot of people did at the time. I remember when I'd introduce Morgan, say she studied inside, oh, you're reading my mind. And I remember thinking, mate, you're you're supposedly smart. Like that is the stupidest thing you could say. But but a lot of people used to say it. So I remember learning through that and this stigma, and everyone's like, worried here, like they're worried. Why are they worried? I don't get it, you know what I mean? Like, so I started, I was seeing so I was learning from what Morgues was studying, and and once I was learning about trauma and that if you don't deal with it, you know, the the problem-solving part of your brain can cease to develop at that age. Like it was key little things which which made certain certain issues I had in my life easier to deal with it. Like it was like, so once I'd I I just learned and and my view on psych at the start when she started studying to the end was just like it's just worlds apart. It was like challenging everything to just asking more questions and and wanting to know more and want wanting to understand why and why, why so just just constantly asking why, I think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Yeah, that's a common question, too, is why uh there's a lot of whys. Yeah. Why we're here, like you're talking about before. What's the meaning of life type thing? And um you were work so you've got a family at this stage, you've got Morgan?

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Got a got a couple, yeah, got a couple of couple of young. I got it was complicated, you know what I mean? Like it was really complicated, you know. Daisy had just um Kate had just had Daisy. I'd been with Kate for a long time, and then we separated, but we'd been off and on, you know, we you know, and uh and then I just met Morg's so that was and then within not long after meeting Morggs and all of a sudden she said I'm pregnant. You know, it's like well we go. We we got we got we got a bit on here now. And and I think having having Daisy and Lil so close and then working that through with Kate and Morgu's, I I think that's when I when I really started to get the growth individually and and really get the change was was having kids. And and then and yet it was it was challenging through those early years, and then and then uh uh and then Pippa was she came along a few years later, but uh as you were still battling, you were still battling these demons, and you were still having nights, you know what I mean? They'll they just became not they became a far less, you know. But you were still having nights where you'd go home and you'd be so what the hell, you know, and then you wouldn't have one for ages, and then you get off the piss for six months, and then all of a sudden you another one pop up, so back off the piss again, you know what I mean? And and um, but uh, but I think too, turning point was um was seeing my kids grow up and seeing them young and and everything that they did that was like that they were challenged with, like whether it was emotionally or or whatever, I I would immediately just go, Oh, that's that's from me, you know. Everything that that was a challenge or remotely close to being something that was negative, I would just be like, Wow, like but through that process, uh, I started to learn more too. So I think kids really helped me, you know, when I looked at the innocence and they were just there, that nothing they're doing is there's no problem. Like we uh, you know what I mean. And then once I started to see these kids with their own little little little nuances, I started going, oh right, okay. It's it's genetic. Like so just starting to look at nurture and genetic, you know, like very sensitive kid I was, and and and and mum and dad had a few blues here and there, and I and I think I struggled with that in in some ways. Um, but but at the same time, looking back now, I I I actually think it was not not as big an impact as I thought it was, because I just think it's more who who are you? Like, how do you well it's it's more about I think it's more about how we're made. Like I think I haven't really changed since I was born, you know. Like I've always been emotional, I'm still emotional, I do care, I overthink, and that but now I can get control of those thoughts because I've got discipline, you know, and I'm I've got purpose, I suppose. I've got I've got a bit of a vision.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

And what work are you doing around this time?

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Around that time, I was working in a meat factory, and I'd I'd I was I had three jobs. I was working at the the markets, the Brisbane markets, driving a forklift and packing orders. I was delivering meat. I remember at that time, I remember saying, Oh god, I just gotta make money, like I've gotta I've gotta get a sales job to to to provide for for this these kids. And so I went and studied marketing, and that and that's where I met Morgues, that diploma. And I would have quit. Like if I didn't meet Morgan, I would have quit. Yeah, I lost my license not long into that degree, under that diploma, and Morgues offered to pick me up because she said it was on her route, and then that started our our relationship and kick started it, and she was young and naive, and she had no idea what she was getting herself in for, and and thank God. And so I was just doing anything to provide, like or to just to cover my costs. I remember when I was studying, I had not much money, and then yeah, I got that diploma, started selling business cards and and letterheads like print without a license. So I'd have to ride a bike or catch a bus to a sales meeting, and so that was a tough little period. I had my my license for that for out of time, and um, and then through that, got a job in recruitment. My brother had finished his degree, so we both started the same day working in recruitment, and then that was at about age, it must have been like age 24, 25. I went from selling business cards and letterheads to selling labor services in the construction and and and landscaping industry. And I mean, that was that was just relentless, you know, that was like 14 hours a day, and I I I liked it. That's through through that little period there, yeah. That's when we actually had Lily, was when we moved away, and and there was a few child, a few complications with her, her, her pregnancy, and we moved to Mackay, and and then and then in the end we came back. So we came back to to Brizzy, I think I was about 27, and we were living with Morgan's parents, and that that wasn't doing much for my my ego or self-esteem. And I remember every time her dad would get home from working in New Guinea, she she he'd be like, Come on, we're going up to the cafe to have you know lunch. And I'd say, No, I'm not going. He'd say, mate, you we're all going, you know. Morgan would be like, What do you what's wrong with you? You know, mate? Like, Dad's gonna pay. I said, That's exactly it. Like, I'm just not comfortable with it. It's just every time he comes home, he's paying. And I'm I said to her, I'm not paying, like, I'm not going. Like, I won't go because I can't afford it. And and so that I remember that that was that period where I was like, really feeling pretty, pretty shit about myself. Like, come on, you gotta do something, you know. And then I was working, like, I was busting gut, midnight shift out the markets and all this sort of stuff. And then we we came up with a business idea, which was only was not new, it was just doing do labor hire in the ag space, and we were doing a bit of that, and then we just we just started doing we just started a business, you know. And I remember I remember Morgan's parents, uh Pat and Leslie, they said, Oh, well, we'll we're gonna get married, and they said, Well, we'll give you 20 grand for your wedding, and I was like, What? Wow. I said to Morgan's, I said, babe, we gotta have a cheap wedding. Can we keep the money if we don't spend it? And she went and asked them, and they said, Yeah, yeah, you can. And I said, We gotta, we gotta go cheap, real cheap. So anyway, she accommodated and we we got the wedding venue for 70 bucks at S Call, and we had wood-fired pizzas. My dad paid for the grog. So I think we saved about 13,000 bucks, and then we put that I put that as part of a 20 or 40k thing that I'd worked, it must have been part of 20, case 20, me 20, and we started business with 40 grand to to for websites and you know, all the bits and pieces. And and then from sort of the age of 28 until now, that's been that's been my life, you know. So my kids have only ever known me to be involved in this business, and uh until now with what I'm doing, but just ran and never stopped running and and and had a very supportive wife. And but but with Dais being away with Kate and being a bit further away, that that really drove my my engagement at home. It was hard not seeing Daisy and that that sparked me to make the most of it at home. So I think I I'll even over the years I've been able to, you know, when I come home, it was reading a book, you know, it was just doing those little things. Like I don't have regret about the time I put into the kids. And I don't have regret about what I did in business, um, but there's no doubt about it, it was it was it was it was just sink or swim, and there was just sinking just wasn't an option. Like it was just it was just this is it. Like I this is there's no plan B, there's no alternative. I don't it doesn't matter how I feel, it really doesn't. You just have to do it. And luckily Morgues was very hardy and she could handle a home life without me there. And she I'd have to ring her and say, hey Dough, you you how you going? Like you can call me, you know, babe, you know. But then a lot of mates said, you're lucky, you know what I mean? Like she doesn't need you, you know, and that's a big thing. She can she's a strong woman. So that that was that that was that was that was the the business, the business, and until now.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

For those that are d into business or startups, what's the biggest learning that that you had to endure?

SPEAKER_00 42:16

Don't quit for at least five years. Like just don't even think about quitting. Like that no matter what happens, you you gotta be prepared to go five years. The statistics prove that small businesses, 80% of them fail in the first five years. So we were never gonna quit. But but it was like after five years it started to you could start to see a little bit of a light there at the end of the tunnel.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

What's what's hurdles you've you faced in those first five years?

SPEAKER_00 42:42

Well, it was like the first five years were probably the best in some ways, because you you you just were running and you just you just the little wins that like you were getting a win back then, and compared to now, like you'd be just you'd be saying, Why are we doing that? Like you you you say to your sales manager, why are we doing that job? But whereas back in the day, that was like that was so it was so it was a different it really just ran on the smell of an oily rag and we just ran as hard as we could and we got people in that ran, and and it was quite fun because everyone that was in there was running, we didn't have office politics. It was like if you can't keep up, that's okay. There's no sacking anyone, it's just like there's a pace, and the pace is this fast, and that's how it's gotta be because we can't, we we it's either we're gonna die, like we've got to we've got to make it. I don't know. Like, I see these serial entrepreneurs, T, and um, I just every idea they come up with is worth a million bucks. And I'm like, you're kidding yourself, bud. Write that thing down on paper and show me how you're gonna make money out of it. Show it to me if it's still good after you've written it down. And and nine I reckon 99 times out of a hundred, they when I write them down, they're shocking. I'm like, that idea, oh, that's a cracker. Write it down, look at it the next day and go, that's either gonna take heaps of work. Heaps of resources or whatever it is, you've got to deal with government. And then you realize it's it's it's not it's not that good of an idea. So for me, when I think about learnings and I think about business, I think you need to really managing managing your expectations the biggest learning. Like it's not your staff's problem, the stress you're under. I think team sports and and and my upbringing helped with that. It was like I felt humbled that someone was working for us. So it was not do and not ask them to do anything that you wouldn't do. And as that as you grow, that changes. But I think respect, like just just managing your stress. So like I would have loved to have not been suppressing my uh pressure with with alcohol. Like I would have loved if I was doing if I was getting up and doing fitness routine and drinking water and eating healthy, and I would have been even better at being able to manage that. Putting yourself in someone else's shoes is a critical thing. And if you're not trying to do that in just everyday life, that that would be my tip. Put yourself in their shoes. It's not about it's not a you know what you think, but if you can try and understand how they feel, then you then you move into a conversation which is moving, which is more more of a conversation as opposed to well, this is how this is the problem. We're we're struggling.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

How far into your business did you feel as though you need to scale up?

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Oh, from the get-go, it was it was all about revenue and and getting getting it as big as you could, just make as much money as you could. We weren't, we were, you know, we we we were in the ag game, so like the the weather was a was a significant risk to to the business. So so we we then we then that's when I left Gunderwindy because it was like I've got to go to Brisbane because I've got to fly around the country, I've got to do, I've got to do work in Tassie because they they might have rain, but they won't have rain in WA or they won't have rain in Victoria and Queens, you know, North Queensland or wherever it was, it was trying to trying to nullify the risk and and just putting in. But I I'd get a call, I'd be doing sales and I'd be making the calls, and I'd get a sniff of a lead and I'd be onto it, and I'd be like, right, I'll be there tomorrow. He goes, Yeah, tomorrow I'd be good. And I'm bang, I'm there. You know what I mean? And had a wife that supported and understood that this was what we were doing. I think that's a key point I keep raising because if if you and your partner aren't aligned and you're starting a business, you're you're screwed. I I don't know if you can do it. I don't think I don't know what stats are. I'd say you're I'd say you're up the creek without a paddle because you know, and I'd just go and I'd be there tomorrow and straight away I almost thought, hmm, service. This bloke's here. So I think by default, you're already halfway there. So you've got to get your price right now, and and he's already he's already going, this bloke's keen. That's what I want. I want someone who's keen. I want the tradie that's there tomorrow. But it doesn't always work out to be the best either. I've now come to learn in life, you know what I mean? It doesn't mean he's gonna be good. Quite the opposite. In some instances, it's been it's like, okay, he's here, and now I've just played, and the things all fall apart, you know. But but that that was that that was a big one, hey, was just being prepared to to to just put yourself. It was just all about that. I was all in.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

I was all in, yeah, everywhere where where you needed to be. Yep, just and just all in.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

No plan B and just just prepared to battle it out.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

Did you have strategies in place or you just winged it?

SPEAKER_00 47:28

We had strategies. Definitely tried to find uh opportunities that like we were looking for work that Aussies just didn't want to do. Entry-level roles in piggeries, like on a pig farm. The locally the Aussies were just like, oh, there were still a few pig, but it was a pretty labor-intensive, there's a smell. Fruit picking then became another one. Like there were, there was, there was, there was certain, and then it was like, Righto, well, how can we supply something legitimately because the industry was was was full of non-compliant behavior, which is predominantly cash. So people on Senlink that are getting cash that maybe on an illegal visa, but a lot of the time they're just they're just legals, they're just getting cash because they're getting Senilink, you know, and and I and know it inside out, but but we just targeted certain things that we we picked mangoes one year, and the year before the farmer said to me, We finished last year with five people out of 150. And I went, Oh, why is that? Oh, it's hard, mate. It's hard, okay. And the first day start, and he starts going down, he's effing this and effing that. And and my supervisor, Vinny, who's now a shareholder of business, says, mate, he's he's swearing and stuff down here. They don't they don't respect it, you know. So go back up there, have it under him, get him to stay out of it. And and then all of a sudden, I met a Kiwi fella. He's the New Zealand beatbox champion five years in a row. This bloke said to me. I said, Oh yeah, show us. If you're gonna believe that without a demo. Anyway, he shows me a demo, and I'm like, Oh, does Billy Jean? I remember him doing Billy Jean. He starts, he's and I'm like, he's he's real good, you know. So I said, mate, we're having a party on Saturday night. You want to come in? Free piss. So he comes in. We got 150 of my crew around, there's me, my uncle, heap of other older Aussie fells driving trucks, and then the rest of backpackers, you know, European, Asian, everything, every nationality. My uncle and I have been cooking hundreds of snags and feed them up, and then Beatboxer comes out, does a show for about half an hour. And and everyone's just wow, like never have we done a job in Australia where we've had a concert live. And I remember and I remember the rest of that mango harvest, mate. Those that crew, everyone, we were running. Everyone. Me, backpacker, everything. And we finished, and we, I think we lost two people. And we were managing all the mango rash and all the things that come with it. The heat and the exhaustion and the small accommodation, and and everyone would know where we're going, where we going. And I've been thinking, we got nowhere to go. Like, that's it. I've got to go and find the next gig, you know. But but at that point, I learned a valuable lesson in life. You know, it's like just look after people and and and get around them and treat them with a bit of dignity and a bit of respect. Give them a little bit of time to get to learn the skill, and then and then, and then good things can happen. And so that was that was cool. That was one of the big highlights early. And and and I think it taught me a lot about um a lot about people and a lot about teams, and and that you could get a big, a shit job done.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

It took it took a kiwi fella to bring the people together.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

He was good. I wish I wish I knew where he was now. Yeah, he he he he was a cracker. He was really good and it and it was.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

He might be back in New Zealand. If you're watching this, contact us.

SPEAKER_00 50:47

Yep, Mataranka 2010 or 11.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Are you always um playing golf through the stage?

SPEAKER_00 50:54

No, definitely not. No, when I was a young fella, my remember my granddad said to my mum, take him down to golf. Because I remember going to the Blue Mountains where they lived, and and he he I he'd take me on the golf course. And I just loved it. Like I loved just obviously playing, I was playing sport. So I was like, this is so good. And he'd be like, mate, you don't stand there, you tuck your shirt in, you do this. Like my grandfather was staunch, you know what I mean? Came out of an orphanage, got a pretty dramatic story, and and he was very strong, like elbows off the table, very staunch, very strong man. And um, so I loved it. And then so mum took me down to the Gunda Windy Golf Club, and we'd play on Sundays every now and again. But uh, you know, back then it was loose. The boys were leagues playing golf, and it was, you know, all kinds of stuff going on. And and so when I went away to school, yeah, when I went away to school, golf pretty much stopped. I never I never played golf until like I remember we do an annual trip now. I've been doing it for about 10 years. Until I got on that trip, I'd really you'd play golf sporadically once a year, once every two years. You know, I still have a baseball grip, like no, no golfer has this. That's my that's my signature, that's my trademark. I think it is out there, but I don't believe any pros have got it. Everyone locks the finger or does something to keep their hands still, whereas I just I'm still just holding it almost like a baseball bat and a cricket, you know.

SPEAKER_01 52:11

I didn't know that. Yeah, so what's the hold?

SPEAKER_00 52:14

It's like an interlocking grip.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

So the two fingers come in, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Yeah, I didn't even know that.

SPEAKER_00 52:21

And so that that's where it played, mate, and then and then it wasn't until until 2023. Um, Jara, the fella I was telling you about before, he he um he we we had a game, you know, through the and he said, mate, you want to have a go at this competition golf? I said, I don't know, but probably not. Sounds too intense. Oh, come on, mate. You know, and first game we had, sure as enough, nearly got into a fight with another couple of blokes. Couldn't believe it. Could not believe it. I was just I said to him, mate, I'm not in it. I I'm not I'm not into this shit. I just don't come out here on a golf course to get involved in a squabble around a petty rule. And anyway, so nearly it nearly it nearly ended before it began. But I but I I love it. Like I love it was it was yeah, golf was one of them things I'd it it my love for it's different these days. I I used to be able to really enjoy just reflecting on the good shots, whereas now it's just it's a different process around it.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

So you started playing golf like late later, really.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

Yeah, handicap, like getting a formal handicap was the first time, was it the back end of of 21 or 22?

SPEAKER_01 53:29

What was your handicap then?

SPEAKER_00 53:30

Yeah, 18. So so playing as a young fella definitely got my hand eye locked in. I had a handicap when I was a young fella, it was probably about the same, you know, about 18, you know, when I was playing a few Sundays in a row and whatnot. And then so I got it and it was and it was 18, and it stayed 18 for a couple of years because I hardly played and wasn't playing any comp and all that sort of stuff. And then then when I started with Dale in 2023, started to then put a few more handicaps in. So then it went down to 15 and then sort of hovered between 15 and 12, and then that's when I was around that 15, 12, that's when I started to go. Well, my mate said, and and I speak to it in the in the in the docker, I think, where Nike and I were on the piss, and he said, you know, I could I could come pro in four years if all I did was play golf. And I remember at the time I just joked it, I just said, mate, no chance. You're like, no chance, you know, you like you you're not getting better fast enough now.

SPEAKER_01 54:24

So you said this when you're on the piss. Yeah. So it's pretty much like you know, when you're on the piss with your football mates and you're talking about, I nah, I I I was the best footballer, I was this, old as that. I spent it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I spent when he was a kid. Yeah, he was nothing when I was a kid. Yeah, it's like so you're you're talking like this.

SPEAKER_00 54:43

Exactly. You know, we had some success, we had a lot of challenges through business, but we we had some success. And and I realized through the success that the questions I was asking myself on what's my purpose and what's the point of life, they they weren't even close to being answered. Financially, I was putting our family in a secure position, but it wasn't fulfilling me in any way. I I'm I was learning, I was learning a lot about myself and a let and about making money and what that looks like. Obviously, leading into me formalizing going pro, it was just like, no, this is not gonna define me. I'm not I'm not gonna keep just working, making money, and just rinse and repeat. That felt like groundhog day, you know, because you'd been doing it for 15 years and you were still doing it. You were and you know, to the learnings, well, mate, the learnings are just keep doing it. If it's painful, it'll probably pay off. But just keep doing it, just keep doing it. Smart enough to learn from your mistakes. You you you should get relatively competent and good at it. And and so then it was just like, okay, I've done this, like what and how long am I gonna keep doing this for? Like till I'm 50, 55, 60. It just doesn't feel like a life that's really lived. Like it's like a you're in the matrix, so you've you're doing what you're told, you know, you gotta make money, gotta buy a house, you know, need all this stuff to live. It's expensive to live, and you want to make sure your kids are, you know, if they get sick, you got enough money to take care of them and and all that stuff. And and that was good, that was all good, but it was just it was just like, no, no, it's not enough for me.

SPEAKER_01 56:21

It's not so all the successes that you've you have, a businessman making good money through your business, you're a good family, loving environment, and you're still I wouldn't say you're not happy, but you still don't have like fulfilling your purpose.

SPEAKER_00 56:36

Yeah, 100%. That's spot on. And and that that was that was sort of hard to swallow. That was a strange thought to have no answer to. It was just like what? I thought I meant to be happy now. Did whatever you think we think we need that we say we need, and what here I am still. I could I could acknowledge exactly that. Like I could pull myself out of it and see it for what it was, and it was just like, wow, man, like and then obviously my mate Tone getting getting his illness, that that's when I think I really started getting the growth, and that's when when I started pushing the button on something else, you know. Like I started running, and I could never thought I could run because my you know, just my body's not. And and that's when I started to. I remember going out on a social game of golf, and I shot three under on the back nine, and the boys were at me, What did you what are you doing? Like, I wanted to know, what are you doing? How'd you do that? Like, what'd you do? I said, I've just been running. Bullshit, you've been you running. I said, I've just been running. And they said, nah, mate. I said, I'm telling you. So when I'm standing over the ball, oh, I'm thinking, I'm not thinking as much. I'm just doing. Like, because my self-belief was was was getting uh was getting getting because I was doing something that was hard that I didn't think I could do. And and I think that's that's what I've learned is is is when you're doing something that is harder than you thought you could possibly do. That that's when the the self-belief gets a gets a booster.

SPEAKER_02 57:58

And also doing something for you, just even achieving that.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

Yeah, couldn't agree more. Um, Renee, with having something outside of work that that's for you is is is really critical. And I think that's what really puts a lot of couples the pre extra pressures. They're just they're both hooking in, they're both, you know, whatever their role is, or with dual, they're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 58:19

Because I think a lot of men love to be in your position, to be successful financially with your family, yeah, and you're still not feeling happy, yeah, as in having that purpose. And I and I feel like at times for myself, and that's how I center myself, like people would love to have what I have, you know, whatever it is, you know, like a job, um, food, shelter, a loving partner, a family. And that's I think that's what I do to try and ground myself. But so you're on the drink, and you're talking about that if you were to go full-time, that you for four years you go pro. Yeah. So how'd that turn into from that? It's a reality.

SPEAKER_00 59:02

Yeah. I was searching for that answer, like I and I and I thought, like, I really wanted to give up drinking for the last few years before I started going pro, at least a couple of years, I was like feeling after parties or social events. I was I was feeling bored. I was getting so bored, and and I felt like resentment to it to it a little bit. Like I was like, why am I feeling like this? And I'd talk to Morguz about it, and I was like, I think it's me. Like, I think I it must be my problem because no one else is feeling this way, you know what I mean? Like, I'm just bored with it, I'm just over it. So obviously, an age must be coming into it there, and it's just like, how do I get off the pit? You'd be going good, you're off the boozer, your sister gets married in America, you wake up the next morning, morgue says to me, So this is March 2023, I think. Do you remember talking to uh that Latino woman? And I'm like, No, what time is that? She said, That was three. I said, Oh, no, it's all good. I came over. She's like, Oh, your wife's all you're talking about, mate. I was just like, black hair. You know, hadn't been drinking for six months, nothing, no problem, no drama. She wasn't, she didn't have the shits, but then she said, I didn't even when did you last remember? I said, I was like, when I gave you them gin and tonics and you didn't want them, and I drank them all because she didn't want them. I got three for my sister and her, and that and anyway, so so she's not got any dramas, but it's like here I am, blackout five hours for five hours, my sister's wedding, and I've got three kids at home in the in the unit, and I and I swore I'd never do that in my my family home, like I'd never bring that drunk alcoholism at home. And so that was that was like far out. Like, here I am again. It's just you've been so good, and one night you could have done something stupid, even though no intent, but it could have been taken the wrong way, could have caused a big argument, could have could have could have gone so many different ways. And for what? For what? And you can't even remember it. So that's that that was that was pretty much it. Like that was right. I'd have these with always got ideas, always drinking, always coming up with crazy thoughts. And then it's like, right uh, what am I gonna do? How the hell am I gonna because I every time I'd go three steps forward, inevitably I would fall off the the the the the thing again, and it'd just be and and you were like it's just too risky, you know what I mean? It's just not worth it, and so I didn't know how to stop. So to to be honest, the the going pro idea was one, I love golf, so I'll get better at golf with the with the the idea. The big one was was was really I I had to find something that I could absorb peer pressure and resist temptation with, and so then that's when I brought the film idea into it because I was like, I have to, um I'm accountable because I I've committed and I've I've got other people involved in it, and so that's to be really honest, it it it was as much about changing my life as it was about dreaming about making the Australian Open. And the coach that I ended up finding, Gillow, who I'm with now, and and he backed it. And he's and I was gonna start. I had these dreams of one day I'll start this and I'll do it full time. And he said, No, you won't be doing this full time, you won't be doing golf full-time, mate. You you it'll spit you out before you even begin. You you need to start something now because you're not your life needs it. And so then I went, Okay, so you'll coach me. He said, Maybe. He said, Come and do the assessment. I need to see what your body does. So I went away, mate, and I just I just as soon as he said maybe and he said do the assessment, I just stopped drinking. I just I just started training the house down. The next thing I came back to him, I was 10 kilos lighter. He was like, Oh, okay, I think he then he started going. Just goes, that's quick, like he's moving. And then he was like, Okay, serious, you know, and then and then we just chipped away. But that so that was in year one, and year one for me was always going to be that if I could get to the end of the year, because it's all good to to to write all these things down and to dream about it, but but my track record hasn't been the greatest. So it was like I still had this doubt that I'd be able to maintain discipline for a whole year. And so as it went, the first the first sort of three months of the journey were were amazing. Like as I went from I had this goal now, I had this commitment, I had purpose, I was locked in and I was losing weight, my handicap was coming down, I had new habits, I was off the piss, I was saying no, you know, I was drinking soda waters, I was I was ticking all these boxes, and my and I could feel that I was looking at myself better, and then everything was cruising, and then I had a drama with um Netball. We were losing, I was coaching, and I couldn't get the girls over the line. You know, they'd win some games, but we couldn't, we weren't at the top, and anyway, I I had some challenges there, and I took it really personally when I had some some some altercations with the mothers, like my kid and this, and my kid and that. I'm like, oh shit. I want this worse than you can ever imagine. Like, I I don't like these girls who and the girls, everything I set out to do, they were doing, and that was what was hurting me. They were turning up to training. We had great culture, we we had commitment, everything they were doing was bang on, 10 out of 10. We trained harder than any other team in the comp, any other team at the at the club, tick, tick, tick, but we just couldn't get over the line on the on the sad days, and then my golf and and everything got really hard because I just started taking it personally, and so that was at the back end of last year, and it'll it'll come out in these next couple episodes. What what what happens? But um, that was so year one was was really about just staying the course, like just just resisting the urges and and and really it was easier to resist temptation. I I resisted it, but it was easier to resist with my mates, my close mates, and people say that'd be your hardest. I was like, a lot of my mates, like because I had this goal and they were aware of it, the peer pressure was less. There were still moments for sure, but the boys were supportive of it and lots of comments of support along the way. Just the road I had to take to get there. And and I firmly did believe, based on what I said when I was earlier, not being like just chipping away and getting better at something over a couple of years when you just you're a kid, so all you focused on was it. But why not? Like, I know it's all been said by people before. I just thought, why not? If I do just go to places I've never been before, I can use all the experience I've had. I I just thought, who knows? Like, maybe I can. Like, because you just got to hit the ball in the middle of the fellow, and then you just gotta put the thing on the green, and then you just gotta put it in. Like, that's all it is. That is uh all it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:48

Sounds so simple.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:50

So so if I can figure out how to do that, like I don't even need to learn how to hit it out of the bunker because I don't hit it in the bunker, I just go the green, you know, not possible. And I still don't make it. How to hit it out of the bunker. So I in my head, I'm like, oh no, it's in the bunker. I'm going to get a bogey. Like I'm still there, you know, like I'm hitting a lot of fairways now and a lot of greens.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:09

I've seen your your coach, your golf coach, and um remember one of the things he told you is don't think, just do it. Just do it. Yeah, just swing. Just swing. Stop thinking about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:19

Yeah, oh mate, I really respect him. Like I hear other bugs with coaches and technical and and I used to tell me, mates, oh, he's not even trying to change me grip or me swing. But he was. But he just he just the way he was going about it, he was just like, ah, mate, relax. He said, You must be cooked when you come off the off the course. I said, Oh, kill it. I'm like relieved. He's like mate, that's not sustainable. The main thing I work on with him now, I I'm doing fundamental work with trying to disassociate my ships, hips, and my shoulders and trying to get power and do things that are because I'm stiff as in the back. Like I my my assessment, TPI assessment is rank. It's like a 24. And and a good golfer should be under eight and under. You know, it's really bad. Like I've got bad range of motion and all that sort of stuff. The main thing he says to me, and this is what I'm trying to carry in my everyday life, is my emotional score. What you talk about, T, like being centered, not being erratic and you know, like you've had 10 coffees, and not being down here at the lethargic, don't want to be there. Just right here in the middle, energized, keen, but but calm. And so I do a journal on that. So he's got this journal for me that I do um every competition round, but I do it also, I don't, I'm really aware of it because that's all I'm focusing on. So the other day, like this week, I got a double bogey on the first hole, and I'm in the middle of the fairway, and like you shouldn't get a bogey from the middle of the fairway with 120 metres. Like, you just put the thing close as good and get it in, you know, as I said before. But I got a double. I'm just like, wow. And then just work my way around the course and and and and just made up some shots. You know, in the past, I that would just with such a low handicap, that that then just starts to play in your mind. Whereas now I'm just trying to work on, you know, it doesn't matter, mate. Like, what are you worried about? What happened? You what did you do? Don't worry about the score, just what did you do? How are you gonna fix it? And just just keep moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:18

You're more aware of it now, too, eh? Aware of the process of it, yeah. And then how to regulate yourself, not to overthink it, not to dwell it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:26

Overthinking's been a big problem for me. That's caused me a lot of pain in life, and people have always said, mate, don't overthink it. And I'm like, oh geez, that's profound. You know, thanks for the update. No shit. No shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:40

It's such a massive mental game, golf.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:43

Like I think I'm coming into the the good, I think I'm coming into a really good period now. Like I know I am, I know I am because I I didn't handle the pressure well when it came down to it at the back end of year one. And I I was like, wow, it was really noticeable when I finished these two big tournaments that I'd been working my ass off to make, and I made them, and I should have been happy just making them. I remember waking up the morning after and looking over at Morgue's and I said, hey babe, can we go to the beach today? And it was crazy because it was just like yeah, it was really massive. Like I was like, I it was great because it was like such a moment of like real acknowledgement that shit, you're not handling this at all. Like you are because you you know you because I'm outside my comfort zone, so I know I'm I'm growing. Like I know I'm growing, I know I'm where I want to be. That's where I want to be. I don't want to be in the comfort zone. I don't I just don't. I wish I could, but I think I'm coming to terms where that's just not me. I I don't want to be in the comfort zone until I day I die. The only comfort zone I want to be is in the wherever I die. That's when I can be comfort zone because I know that I've got virtue and I've got restraint and I've got discipline. I've got these things that that had that that that that that build me up and that keep me safe and keep me strong and keep me calm. And but yeah, it was really acknowledgeable. So then we went overseas just recently and I've never watched a TV series like ever because I can't watch one for long enough, fall asleep, can't stay engaged, mind just wanders, blah, blah, blah, all those sorts of things. I was relaxed. We went on a seven-week trip. Morgan says, Oh, you know, I said, I wouldn't mind watching something. I feel um, I I can, you know, I can zone in. So we watched Vikings. Have you seen them?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:23

Yeah, yes, yeah, loved it. Great choice.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:26

Loved it, loved it. I was just like, wow, I want to be a Viking. You know, because for years I've always thought it would have been easier to be at war, you know. And I and I don't say that lightly to anyone that's been, but but my grandfathers definitely have. We've got everything, you know, it's we're so rich. And and it's just you you can do anything you want, you know, it's all there. It's if you just have if you just put in, you you can you can do anything you want. And I think um through that process is just too much choice, and just, you know, and all of a sudden, and then you started having some success, and then you're like, wow, like what still, you know, so I don't know. So then I think watching Vikings and getting history lessons of all the countries and really zoning into their political, religious, whatever the his economic, all of the history of that country, it it then started to, I just it just perspective, it just gave me more perspective, and then and then when you start thinking about Ragnar, why did he want to keep finding new land? Why did they keep wanting to find new land? It's not that different, you know, to me. It's just like we're still humans, and they wanted to die on the battlefield because they were going to Valhalla, and I'm like, well, I want Valhalla. They're not fearing, they're not fearing the result, yeah, they're not fearing the result, and that's what I want. That's how I want to play my golf. Like, I and I think I can get that through through perspective and gratitude, and and I'm getting you it's easy to get perspective and gratitude if you're being kind to yourself and you're showing some discipline. I think, I think that's what I've learned. I might overthink on something, but I I catch myself and even when I was overseas, like I drifted, I was out of my routines, and all of a sudden the brain came in. It was like, oh wow, all of a sudden the thoughts would stay longer. And then I was the back end of the trip, and the boys said, Oh, we're doing a 50k challenge this week. If it's not on Strava, it doesn't count. And all of a sudden I was back. Just took that, that, that, that one change, that one competition with the boys, and all of a sudden I was measuring all my steps, I was getting up early, I was going for a run. I was like, because I don't want to come last, you know. I knew I couldn't beat a couple of them, but I was like, I don't want to be last, I don't want to be last. And then the following, and then a couple of weeks later it was 60k's, and and it was like all the boys were were back into it and doing the good stuff, and and the energy on the chat line grew, and it's like so it's it's it's proven to me that without trying to get something, if you're an overthinker or you're a little bit emotionally challenged or you got a bit of aggression or whatever it is, if you haven't got something that's not money, I'm not talking about a job, like if you're not trying to do something, that's why my brother, he got he was always he's always been addicted to the gym. And he so he's known this for a long time. I remember always thinking, and he said, mate, if I don't have the gym, I wouldn't be able to deal with it. And and I just wasn't like that. I was just like, Yeah, but it it was his saving, it was his saving grace, you know, sculpting his his body, he's got a good rig. So he put a lot of time into it, but this is just the this is just the path I I I took for for me, and and and it's probably not the same, it wouldn't be the same for everyone else, but I did feel, you know, to you going back to you had everything, you've got everything, and you're still asking why. I am still 100% asking what's the point of life. Like I still am, and I'm listening to a lot of stuff. Like I I'm listening to a lot of Alan Watts, like I I'm doing a lot of stuff, like I'm I feel great, like I'm I feel good, but I'm still like I still feel like there's something coming. Like I still feel there's a few things that you know we've speaking of before that that definitely I want to I want to be a part of, you know, change. I felt privileged and I felt that this privileged position of being born in Australia, being in the position I was in, having support, family, wife around me, I just felt like earning money and and and and living my life over here. I just felt like that wasn't, that just didn't feel like me. It was just like, well, that that that feels like a waste. Like you you were you've been fortunate to get you had your little challenges here, could have gone either way, you know, in that 18 to 24, you could have really caught, you could have really done, you know, you could it could have ended differently. So you didn't. You met a woman, you could have fucked that up, you didn't, and here you are. And so what are you gonna do now, big boy? What are you gonna do? Well, guess what? I can't do shit just yet because I gotta get better. Like I gotta, I gotta, I gotta work on myself. I gotta, I've gotta do things I've never done before. And then once I keep doing those things and I keep getting strong and I and I learn how to manage all this expectation. Which I I'm getting better at, and and and ideally, I make the Australian open. I I reckon then I'm then I'm getting closer to to finding my purpose and my why, and I'll be able to articulate it, and I'll be I'll I obviously along that journey of where I was to now and and and where I'm trying to get to, um, my wife will will tell me if something's not right, you know, but but all the language I'm getting from her at the moment is is positive, you know. She's like, no, this is you're driving again tonight, that's great. I'll have a few wines. That's just she loves it, you know. Oh, no, don't worry about Luke and drive, you know. It's like I'll drive you. You know, so she she she she deserves it, you know. Like she put up with some shit, you know, back in the day, and and and that's a that's a a really fortunate position I'm in to be able to repay the faith. And that that's something that that means a lot to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:01

Do you have a certain routine that you do before you you start your comp?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:06

Yeah, I do. Yeah, I do. It's I'm slowly perfecting it because up until now I've still managed work and I was coaching netball, I was still working and I was just fitting in golf around work still a bit, but but now I've stood down from day-to-day operations. That'll probably be the first uh a lot of the guys at work have heard. I've just think I've just ghosted it a bit. I've worked it out with Case and the and the executives. So now I'm trying to go from a uh just an everyday bloke with a job to to a professional athlete. And so that's been an interesting transition. And so I've still got I've still got some responsibilities there with work and some commitments, but but yeah, getting that daily structure in place is is where I'm at. So from from a golf perspective, in for competition rounds, two days ago my tea time was 7.20. So I was like, right, I prefer a bit of a later tea time now that I'm not working, so I can not wake up so early. So I woke up at 4:30. First thing I do, and I don't think any of the health advocates will probably agree with this, they'll tell you to drink a litre of water. I drink black coffee straight off the bat. So I get that buzz. So I get that buzz. I I look forward to that buzz. So I think that's the old addictive personality of me coming out, it's like, oh yeah. And then it's like, right, do some stretching. I do a broomstick warm-up just stretching, and and then I'll do these other stretches for my back and whatnot. And then I'll get into the golf course and then I'll it's not set in stone yet, Renee, which it should it. Well, maybe not, maybe not. Maybe you don't want to be too you know regiment regiment because if the weather's out or if something changes or something happens with one of your kids, like you gotta be flexible, you've got to move with it a little bit. But but definitely waking up, having a black coffee, stretching, practicing my gratitude, getting perspective, like trying to take some deep breaths, you know, don't turn the music straight on and do your routine. Like just try and acknowledge the day and that whatever happens today is not gonna change you. And the and and and so try and remove the outcome and go back into like the process mindset. Right hey, today all I'm trying to regulate is my emotion. That's what I'm going out there to do. So then when something does go pear-shaped, if that's how I'm training my brain, then that's the moment where I'm gonna rate that that following afternoon. The afternoon, it's like, what did you do when you got the double bogey? Yep, it frustrated you, but you just went to the next T and you had to hit the T off. So why is you can't worry about it because you gotta So it's that's probably the big one at the moment is a stretching routine, and then and then sort of like going through that emotional mindset that today that's what my that's what I want to out, that's my outcome is a five emotionally, regardless of the score.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:54

Because you spoke about manifestation and you spoke about it when you were a kid.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:58

That that's what you did, and then you spoke about it when you wanted to make change in your life, and you manifested your wife. Is manifestation one of your big things leading into pro golfing?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:09

I reckon. I I think so. Yeah, I it's just a really constructive and positive mindset. Even a young fella pulled me up the other day. I said, see you young fellas, oh you like he's kept out driving me. And like, and I hit perfect drive. I was like, wow, I'm still 20 metres away, you know. And he'd say you've got to stop talking about being an old fella. He's probably right. There's no point saying it, even if you're joking, like, what's the point of it? Say less then, just don't say as much. Like, I've always been that guy that if the room starts to fall silent, I don't want that awkward silence. So I've always filled that void. And for the last few years, like a long time, I've not I've been working at not being that, but as a salesman and the head salesman of uh trying to build a business, you you become really good at learning body language and and reading the the vibe, and and so you you you get good at small talk, you know? Whereas now I'm I'm at that point where I'm like, well, as I was saying, when I was drinking, I was getting bored. I I think it was because of everything I'd done. I was getting sick of small talk. If it wasn't serious and we weren't talking about growth or someone that needed help, I was out. I was just like, I don't want to talk about that person, they're not here. I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't care about that. I actually don't care about the politics either. Because what are you gonna do about it? Are you gonna do anything about it? If you're not gonna do anything, I don't really care what your opinion is because it's just like my opinion, it's just an opinion, it just doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, you know what I mean? Unless you're gonna do something with it, I'm all in. But if you're not gonna do anything with it, let's have a chat. But I I find a lot of times people can't handle talking about religion and politics. I can. And people will argue, no, you can't, you know. I was like, I can't because like Trump, hate Trump, but I like some of the things he's doing, and some things I just say, what this is crazy, what's going on? But again, it doesn't really, it's not gonna get me uh angry or unhappy because tomorrow I'm waking up, I'm gonna practice gratitude, I'm gonna do my my stretching, and I'm gonna feel grateful. That's what I'm gonna do tomorrow. And and and when I and that's gonna drive my behaviour tonight on a Saturday night. Now I'm good. The first few months was like, God, kill a beer, you know, like love to have a beer right now. And I and I and and and maybe, you know, I had a few beers on holidays when I was away. It was so quick. It was like you'd had a couple of beers, you'd had two beers, and it was like you wanted one the next day. And then the day after that, and you got this urge thing going on again, and it was good to acknowledge it and be like, wow, there we go. But then came back, and I was just like, that was that just happened too quick, you know. Like there was, and so now I'm just back on the on the train, you know, because it just proved to me again that but it was controlled. I I I enjoyed feeling tipsy, but again, it was enough for me to realize it was the slippery slope, it was the start of something that that that that just can come undone again. And and I think having this goal is so I got to experience that in a controlled environment just with Morgan and the girls. So she she had input around it, and then it was like, right, you're back now. And and I think, and and through it, to be honest, mentally I was bad. Like I was chasing it because we're on holidays and I was loving it, being on follows, but but mentally it got hard again. It was like the thoughts are getting harder to control. So the the little demons are coming back in straight away, attached to the alcohol, not doing your fitness, not getting up, not doing any golf, you know, all the fears of failure come in, and then all of a sudden you start feeling it. It's like, oh gosh. So then I've come back, and I as soon as I hit the floor, Morgan said, Oh, are you feeling jet lag? I said, Not one bit. I don't have time to feel jet lag. I've got to drop 10 kilos that I just put on in seven weeks. And it just went and just bang, I just started running. I was just like up, you know, we're getting she was getting no sleep. I was getting no sleep, I just didn't care. Like I was just I was so locked in, getting back in because I was so far behind, I felt. And then my golf in the last two weeks has been the best it's ever been. And it's like, okay, here we go. Can start to believe and dream again, and it's no coincidence. All the discipline and routine and and and and determination and you know, uh holding like reject like what's the word when you restraint, you know, not following that urge, you know. I'll just at the moment I can I can just resist. I don't I don't have to get a Kit Kat when I go and fill the car up, even though I love those little things, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:40

When I when you go feel one more in the Kit Kat.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:43

Oh, how good are they? Not and not the breaky ones like that. Yeah, the the the bar.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:48

Yeah, yeah, the turkey ones.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:50

Yeah, I get full dopamine for the whole time I'm eating it. Like it's just it's just a release the whole time. And but but now it's just like I know that resisting the Kit Kat that that will probably mean easier adoption of of the process and the emotional reg because it it does impact me. It does. I was eating a lot of scones at the back end of year one, like from Baker's Delight. Shout out to Baker's Delight. I would I would like a deal with him.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:20

Yeah, they're gonna sponsor you.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:22

Okay, and and like I'd eat these scones, I'd have a bad round, and instead of drinking piss, I'd go past Baker's Delight and get the fruit scone. But they had this special, had this peach and white chocolate and this raspberry and bloody white chocolate. And I'd eat them, and they're always so moist, and I was just like, Oh my god, like I'm gonna get two. And then I thought I was hiding them from Morgan, and then like it was like I'd I'd been three or four times and she said, Yeah, so what's going on at Baker's Delight? And I said, What she's I've seen the receipts on the come up on the card, and I'm thinking, what? That's like a five-dollar entry. Like, what anyway? Then she started getting automated texts, and I didn't realise I was trying it now, lying to yourself, just kidding yourself, you know. Like, she she don't put chocolate in the house because if she can avoid it, because I'm still not not strong enough.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:13

Like, yeah, that's my poison too, chocolate.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:15

That's why I don't buy it. Yeah, if it's not in the house, it's not here.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:19

You went to Bali, was it last year for that tournament? Yeah, with the boys, yeah, with the boys, and yeah, you end up getting on the bing tanks and you come back and you were held accountable then, weren't you?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:30

Yeah, that was that was right before we started going pro, like right before I started it in my head. I the film crew wasn't meant to start then, but they said, Oh what? You're going to Bali with 20 of your mates. I said, Yeah, let hang on, I need to ring them and make sure it's kosher that you can come. And I rang the captain and he said, Yeah, mate, it'll be fine, you know. A few of the boys were like, We don't want them here. Like, what what well they don't want to film us? Like, this is dumb, this is some dumb shit, you know. And yeah, so the the film the Jack Owens Act came on that, and most of these blokes are from regional Australia, most of them are farmers in some form or fashion. So the boys, they're living a pretty high pressure life out there on the farm, and you know, we go and play golf for four or five days, and yeah, the bin tang itself, as far as a beer goes, if you felt like you were never pissed. Oh, yeah. You're having 20 a day, and in the end, you're like, you're sick of it, you know what I mean? Because it's like, but probably good, probably good in that form. So yeah, I went and had heaps. I never, it was probably the most tame trip ever because you know what I was about to go and do, but but definitely drank a lot of bintang, but I was sharing with a room with a mate, good mate, and he wasn't drinking. Um, so we we he's got some videos that can't be shared of chats that we had that he took on the sly. And I'm like, mate, yeah, delete, just delete that chat. You know what I mean? Like it's just it's fine. Like some of it did make the cut. Yeah, then then just came back and this time. Like, this is it. This isn't this is gonna change, this is gonna happen. And and then started wearing a glucose monitor to see what my body was doing to certain foods, and then just started cutting out like that. Was when I cut out milk. Yeah, and and the weird thing was we when I wore the glucose monitor when I had milk in my coffee, like my glucose spiked, and I was like, okay, so it made it easy to flick milk because of the glucose spike. So then I was like, right, the glucose is good, get rid of the sugar. Just had this goal and had had an accountability partner with the with the camera. It helped. And and to be honest, my golf at that point in time was just like on the way up, was cruising. Like I, you know, I was got my handicapped to two, and it was just like I was like, Wow, I shot under par three times, like one day there at Noosa Springs. This guy, King Henry, actually said, play off the white markers, you know, put yourself in different positions. So I did that with a couple of mates, Todddy and Huey, and and I shot seven birdies and an eagle and four bogeys. And I shot five under. And that's when I started. I started going, fuck. But it was weird. Like everything just happened. It just was so easy that day. So everything was just cruising and and then and then as I thought it would, it just, it just, it just hit a hit a wall. It was after seeing Ree and Richie. But it but at the same time, looking back now, I was still I was definitely still progressing.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:22

So what you just said your handicap's at two now? Four.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:27

It's at four. Yeah. In those tournaments, the biggest amateur tournaments in Queensland, um, definitely hard courses, they're set up hard, the pins are in hard positions, the markers are back further than you'd usually be. There's water and stuff everywhere. And so that blew it out a bit because it was like round, round, round, round, round. All these rounds set up tough, where if you go and play your local club, it's easier. So it just compounded and and uh and I think that on the back, I just my game just I just I lost confidence. Yeah, I lost a lot of confidence, and I wasn't thinking the same. I was actually thinking, what am I doing? And and right now I'm not thinking any of those thoughts. Yeah, but that was that was that was tough, D.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:08

So you've got what, a year now before the tournament?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:11

Yeah, so what are we now? Feb Feb, late, no, almost late Feb. So so for me, I'm in like week five of year two, and that's how I'm working it. It's probably a shortened year, it's probably only going to be an 11-month year. I'll just keep working on this emotional regulation. Obviously, I'll turn up every Monday, get coaching with with Gillo. We're working on the fundamentals of my swing. I'll keep really zoned in on um the strength and conditioning I'm doing. So this this year I want to I want to get a bigger distance, I want to be able to drive the ball closer. So we've we've measured where the top amateurs are, and we've measured where Rory McElroy is, and then there's me. And so when we when we start sharing this for season two, we'll we'll clearly articulate where I am today, where I need to be by December, and then which is there's top amateurs, and then there's Rory. And then and then in season two, all this strength and conditioning I'm doing, I I've I've got to be like, I've got to be a professional athletes figure by the end of this year. So that next year I'm literally on the ground running later. Yeah, like I'm I'm I'm I'm in these amateur events, I I'm competing for them, I'm not just filling a number. It's gonna be a big year, and and I'm sure it's I'm sure there's gonna be some some really challenging times, and that's why I'm working hard on this emotional control now. Um, because I know that you know, on the days that are bad, you know, when you're sculling chips, you know, and you're like, oh wow, like this is really bad, or getting beaten by guys that have got a high handicap or whatever. There'll be those moments, I'm sure, but but hopefully not.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:55

Because you got a pretty good team around you. You've got um Gilly, you're your the coach, you've got nutritionists, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:02

Got a new well, I've got a new nutritionist now. Yeah, Hayden, he works with uh Sydney Roosters, and he's he's more of a high performance nutritionist. So Vic Victoria was about she she worked with addicts. I I met her through a rehab um facility, and I didn't go, one of my good mates went there or a bit of a bit of a workshop there, and he said, Oh mate, talk to this chick, you know. So she she was all about uh just abstaining from from everything. Carbs are bad, fruits bad, you know, all these things that I did to to lose the weight and change, and I and I and it was good. Whereas whereas now, as as with anything, the differing opinions that Hayden's like, no mate, you need to be you need the right amount of fuel for for golf, you need the right amount of fuel for your training. So you can optimize everything can be burning and fueling, and you you're getting the results you want. He's he's not really focused on weight loss like it was. He'll say we'll do a like a calorie deficit. And so we'll do I'll do that with Hados and then and then Keith on the strength and mobility. So all my weight sessions are all centered around like the power that I'm trying to get out of my swing, whether it's be and the disassociation, like my hips and shoulders to be, like, you know what I mean? My hips to be there, my shoulders can't, then my hips come, and then the oh man, it's hard. So that they're they're the they're sort of I've I've probably shortened it up, mate. Like I'm not working with Jeff at the moment, he's not practicing my psych. Um, I I I don't have a psych at the moment, other than my own knowledge, my friends, and probably morgs. Um, but but I feel okay with that. Like I'm just I've tried to simplify it. Like I've tried to just like wake up on Monday, I go here on Tuesday, this is what I do. On on Wednesday, this is I'm trying to get it like that, so that the simpler it is in my head, then the easier for me it is to assess how I'm going and and and what I'm doing. So I'm every day I'm journaling to say, I did this much today, I did that much today. And you know, we're measuring all my stats, like I'm measuring how hard I hit the ball, how far I hit the clubs, all that sort of stuff. And then we'll measure that again in two two months to see if the work I'm doing and all this stuff is it having an impact on these key these key metrics here? And if it isn't, we have to change. But ultimately, yeah, try and try and so you've you're not doing work now, you can't use that as an excuse. Um, you you're you're you're a you're a professional athlete now that that does not get paid. You're doing what you want to do. You're living and breathing it. You're living and breathing it, mate. And and I do, I feel grateful for it. Like I really do. People, how how bad do you want something? So really hard to know, you know, because you can want it, but you can't it can't become all consuming to the point where you're not engaged to what your daughter's saying. Yeah, and that has happened. You know, I've been in conversations before, I'm like, shit, I can't ask her to repeat that. It would just be rude. And I hate that. Like I really hate it. And that's probably one of the biggest drivers for me is when I'm in a conversation and all of a sudden something comes in that I've got to do, or that happened, or you know what I mean? And it's it's always it's been there since I was at school, you know. Like I'm just not listening, just in my own head. Just and and it's something that this journey I'm hoping and I'm confident that it is changing. Like I'm I am reconstructing my nervous system to the point where it's I am, I am, the noise is is coming in, and I'm able to be in that moment. It's mindset and and it and it's and it's gratitude, and and it's it's easier said than dumb, but and I'm sure in the moment they hate losing and all that sort of stuff, but but the the the ability to train your brain to constantly, it can't just be on the golf course, it it's gotta be in everyday life. You you have to you have to be working on being grateful to be part of life rather than try and search it. What now I can say this, but I'm on my journey, I'm not there, but I know I have to be grateful for being part of life, as opposed to trying to find out what the meaning of life is, and and and and the fact that you are healthy, you know, you don't have to stress, and your kids don't have MD, or you you don't have MND, or you know, you you don't, but so just take a few deep breaths and just try and enjoy the ride. And and I think I'm getting I'm I'm very close, I'm very close to it. You know, I wasn't I was happy driving over here to see you guys. I was like, sweet, let's chill. You know, I was getting a bit nervous. I was like, what am I gonna say? You know, how are they gonna edit it? Like shit. I couldn't say anything. I'm glad we got that chat out of the way at the start. You know, got got got that. But I it's like I never set out on this journey to for anyone else but myself. And I knew that if if I get myself into these, if I if I can learn discipline and and reconstruct my nervous system, I know that's gonna be better for my for my close family. I know I'm gonna be a better person and and be able to find the meaning of life. And I think through that, even now, it's like you're still going through gratitude, you're still practicing it. It's like still got to put the work in, yeah. You still got everything, and you're playing golf every day. Like, but uh mate, if you're not happy now, I've got I've got problems for them, and they're not good. Though the power of the mind is something that I'm still I I'm still firmly entrenched on learning about, and and going pro is is definitely a step in that direction, and and this year will be another layer, and I'm I'm looking forward to learning about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:41

Because you got a lot of um good mates that are former athletes, yeah. Like Lottie Tacurius, who you're playing golf with him, and you must pick their brain about what it takes, yeah, to to be at that level consistently. Yeah. Do you think there would be a difference no matter what sport you you play at a professional stage? Is the mindset would be different?

SPEAKER_00 1:37:04

I don't think so. No, like talking a lot, he was like, you know, he he struggles on the golf course. He's just like everyone else. Like he gets nervous. So he's not taking that professional base back into golf because he's fundamentally he's not there. But but when I remember talking a lot a few times about what was like, you know, for Queensland, Queensland, he said was next level. Like he said you couldn't, he said it was just adrenaline overload. It was just you, you really he just said you just it was like eyes in the back of the head, you know. And he tells this great yarn about Gordon Talis's like he made up a story. He said, Oh Gordy, did you see that in the crowd? And Gordy's eyes were rolled in the back of his head, he couldn't think straight. And he's like, they they called your mum something. He's just like, right. And it was that game where he dragged Brett Hodgson over the yarn going on that Lottie stirred him up a bit, you know. But Lott says that you know, back back when he was playing, and and he and Lot always plays it down, he's very humble. Like he's always like, Oh mate, I was just on the wing, you know. I just did I just had to do my job. But he he he's very humble how he speaks about it. He feels yeah, he's a very he's a very humble fella, Lottie. Um and a lot of time always love hanging around lot, lots of fun. Huey McCluggage from the Brisbane Lions, he's a younger fella, obviously a lot younger than Lott. Lot and I share a lot of similarities in our age and and times of life, and obviously he came over as a young fella from Fiji, and so that's a unique story, too. But but Huey McCluggage is a young fella for the Lions, and the Lions have now won two in a row and been in the last three. And and Hugh, Hugh talks of again, it's it's it's belief. It is the same, it's all humility. Ed Fagan, the coach, just talking them and plucking, it doesn't feel like it's any different. It's it's just just not fearing the result and knowing you've done the work. I think they would definitely be the and then and then self-belief comes from from those things. Like if you've done the work, you've done all you can, and you've got the the right structure around you, then ultimately, no, I think it is the same. Just working on it, just continue to work on it. Like the results of that team under pressure, and now moving into the Roger Federer, Carlos, like they're winning the tight games, and then they're pumping them in the grand final because it just got the edge, mental edge, mental edge. We've seen it so many times in sport too, when a coach goes out and they put in a new coach and no one's changed in the team, and then it's a different team. It's like what? That's not the coach, that's the players. Yeah, the coach has an impact, but the players have changed their mindset or something has happened, whether the coach did it or what. So you you the results speak from self. So that's that's for me, year two, is is doing the work, trusting the work, and then and then and then, yeah, definitely try and lean on people. This year I'll be definitely trying to lean on a few other people that have done it before, like Rihanna with the diving, when she said to me, Oh no, I still get nervous when I stand up here on 24-meter platform. And I said, You shouldn't be getting nervous, mate. Like, that's like you could die, you know. And she's like, Yeah, I know. So I said, Well, how do you counter it? And she said, I just have to go back to processing what I've done and my training, and just when I dive off there, I'm gonna do this. And it's like, so it's the same, it's exactly the same thing, and that's why learning off them has helped is helping me now. I think I'm learning more now, looking back and thinking about. And Richie was the same, you know. Richie's UFC fighter and a big wave surfer. He still charges big waves, like he's a madman. Like he's he's got he's got different blood, like his bleeds, his blood's just a little bit different. Like the boys I'm working with now doing the film, and they surf, but they're like, no, we would never charge that wave. Never.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:45

It'd be so cool. Like you get an opportunity to hang around and be around these type of people, eh?

SPEAKER_00 1:40:50

Very privileged, mate. Yeah, very privileged. And I'd I'd very privileged, yeah, and very grateful. You know, it's up to me now to to learn from that and and to try and to make it. And I got my brain scanned in America back in 2023. My brother was worried about early onset Alzheimer's from football, and and so I went over there and got it, and they scan your brain and and and they scan your brain under cognitive and emotional pressure, like these tests, they're all timed, and then they scan it with you just being chilled. So then then they look at your brain under both those situations. And mine was very clearly, as I think most would, when it's under that pressure, it shows where the blood goes. So for me, it went to that anxiety part of the brain. It's like you're freezing up. That's what it was like when I was doing exams. I just froze up as soon as I was in the classroom, you know. And then when I was nice and relaxed, I had all this blood flow. And I then I told him a story when I'd been on one of these benders that I'd be at. I could play any song on the guitar, I could play any, I was just killing it on the tennis court and I hadn't been to bed two days, and I was just a freak. Like I could pick up songs I just wouldn't try because barcord moving too fast, or the songs too lyrics too fast. I was just like, I wouldn't try it. Then you could pick it up under a bender and you'd get it. And he'd like, oh, I don't understand the link. I said, Well, mate, the link is I was so tired, I couldn't overthink, and I had so much blood flow because I was so relaxed that something that I found nearly impossible straight, I could do. And so trying to just list think about all these things and and bring them into now, into what I'm trying to do, that that the relaxed, calm state of mind is is the only way I'm going to even it's not I can't even dream about it if I can't regulate my emotions. Like the other thing, too, that Rhee and Richie told me is to embrace the that nervous energy. That's why you want to do it. Like, and I'm trying to find that. So rather than fearing competition days, like they're the days I'm like, oh good, I get to go out here and be serious. I'm not stuffing around with the boys, like I can just lock into my process every time, you know. I can take my time, like I don't have to worry about everyone else where they're standing, and if they don't know the rules, you know, or anything like that, like all the people behind me, like everyone that's out there in those comps, they know state of play, they know the basic structures of golf, which for me when I'm playing with the boys sometimes it's like oh shit, or or anyone, someone's hitting up on us, or you know, we're hitting up on someone else, and it's like I haven't figured out how to block that noise out yet, but in comp I can because I know there's others dealing with it as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:24

Because in your last episode, you were getting um better, eh?

SPEAKER_00 1:43:27

So yeah, that was sort of I know the exposure therapy to being heckled, being heckled, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I actually played all right that day again, missed heaps of putts, but that that was a good learning. Like I really I could hear him, and he's like, Oh yeah, he's trying to get he's getting personal, you know. And he was, and then Jack O, the film boy, got into and he knew shit, so he's throwing barbs at you know, personal barbs he knew of that we'd add in chats, but but and it did yet you you really then had to focus in that tree, that shot. And I remember I remember at times going, Wow, like you want to just stop your ears because you couldn't think, and it was really good. Pro uh, it was meant we were meant to do a lot more of it, and and I think it would have a really good outcome. But yeah, I'm getting I'm I'm I'm on the right track.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:14

Yeah, and uh the other one was uh King, where he he he stitched up big time me.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:20

Yeah, he stitched me up. The king can't help himself, he's a unique character, and I actually learned a lot from him. There, there's some valuable information from from the king. Um and uh no, I'm I'm probably lucky. It cost me a bit, but you know, it was probably bad off.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:38

Yeah, because you're so oh yeah. Well, is it so funny that to watch someone in her thing pissed off is so funny, yeah. Yeah, I I I felt a funny scene you like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:52

Yeah, cool, mate. No, I I wasn't honest, so nice to me. But now my brother was the same, like my close mates were like, you know, they were like, mate. But they laughed too. Like they're laughing too, going, hey, you was you wanted to throttle him, you know. Yeah, I did. But it but but I learned more in that. But it was the it was up until that point, that was the first day that that going pro journey felt like work. Before then it hadn't. And I I really struggled at that moment because I was like, wow, this this this feels like I'm like I'm I'm having to do something that I don't want to do for the sake of it. And when you look back, it's like, yes, that's exactly what you were doing, mate. So now this year is about I played him this week actually. Oh yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:43

Oh how'd you go?

SPEAKER_00 1:45:46

Did you get back, Adam? Nah, he beat me by one shot. But I haven't had any sleep. I hadn't had any sleep. I got home from Brisbane at 2 a.m. and I had to be there at 5 30. So I was really tired. That's my excuse. And um, but nah, he was he was still his he was still his usual chatty self. Um, but I'm I am gonna get back. I will beat King, there's no doubt. In the next 12 months, I'll beat King unless he practices more because I can see a few glitches in his armory, but he's he's definitely a better part of the me and a better short game. But I can outdrive him now because he's he's not in the best shape, so I'm getting in good shape. So he's a little driver now. I've noticed that. So he he he will be watching this. So you know I'm coming for you. You better start practicing, mate. And um, but yeah, so play against him and just try and play better golfers this year. Like every week I want to my goal is to be playing against someone who's better than me, and and the and the and that's plus one or two comp rounds. So I'm I'm hoping that everything that we've spoken about, the journey I've been on in my life, and and really living and breathing this emotional control that I should be able to perform to my ability. And and and my ability will get better if I put the work in and I listen to the coaches and I apply myself. It it should get better. K Gillo, the coach, says, Yeah, it should get better. You should be scratched by the end of the year. So shooting per par or birdie rounds every time, right now. Like I finished four over. I'm like, that was good. Glad I got that done, you know. Just keep believing, just keep believing. I suppose that's why I've got the camera in some way. Like, I I do feel I do feel like anything can happen. Like I do, like I do honestly believe it. I'm not just saying, I'm not just taking the cameras, costs money. Like, I'm not just doing it for my own ego, like I don't need to do it, and I don't have any time for anyone other than my my my my friends and family. Like I there's there's not enough time in the day, but I do feel that there's gonna be some some tough times, and I and I hope that through that learning and the camera that may encourage certain decisions for other blokes. Predominantly it's a male audience. My statistics will show it's a 98%. So when my when I get all ripped and shit, I'll probably take my shirt off a few more ladies, but my wife's like, I don't think that will help me. But it's it's a 98% male, male audience between 25 and 54 at the moment, mainly golfing. I I've seen some pretty poor behaviour on the golf course, so I'd like to think that I'd like to think that the golfers out there could learn something, like in the with their own game and their own performance through through emotional control and actually putting the work into it because I do believe that you you can't just go to golf course and do it either. That's the beauty of it. Like the work you do for your golf game, you have to be living it. You know, you can't just go and turn it on. You can try. I don't believe it's that simple. Some can, I'm sure. But Scotty Scheffler, he goes home, he gets checked, he gets into his faith. This is everything I've read. And and then he goes to golf course, and yep, he gets a little bit emotional because his expectations are now higher than what they were. That's the challenge, too. You know, I've seen that with Cam Smith, you know, he he he was cruising, his his strike rate when he was in contention was really high. And then lately you see him just just wanting it more than who am I to to critique those those lads, but I but I do believe that the the the big one is it's just that it just that everyday thing we're seeking of of gratitude and and acceptance and just emotional regulation and and being able to just be in the moment and and play the shot you need to play.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:21

Before we go into our closing questions, I was gonna ask, well, what's the future for Luke Brown? We obviously know that the future is to be in the 2027 Australian Open.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:31

Other than that, what's your future heading towards?

SPEAKER_00 1:49:34

I don't know. It's exciting. I know that. I've learned that retiring and uh is not a thing that I even gonna talk about. Like, I think I want to be part of something that is learning. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. For me, it's just all in the now of what I'm trying to do, and then seeing who I am and how I who how I think in another you know, couple of years, like what what is this justice? journey, how have I grown? And maybe the things that I'm thinking about now have changed. Look, it could be anything, mate. If I make the Australian Open, maybe I just keep playing golf. You know, like ideally it'd be it'd be hard to to walk away from the game if you if you if I got that if I made it. And and at the moment the the golfers like they're not threatened at at all by me and nor should they be. But we'll see. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:50:24

What's the feedback from from the pros up there or even the high amateurs towards what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:31

Yeah mate I I oh like there's plenty of little comments on the YouTube and and and on um around the traps that I hear secondhand and and it'd be good it'd be good to understand it from them but but ultimately yeah no chance yeah like zero not even one percent that's what they say which does not really change anything because like I I just go yeah probably right you know there is a chance because you're doing it you're fighting for it so there is a chance that's it I I I break it down and just think you know if if I'm in that event to qualify that's what my coach you're saying that's a win um but if I if I make the event then it's just like I said before just hit the ball down the fairway and put it on the green. But how big is it how big are the greens? Well they're they're usually you know whatever between seven ten meters wide like you got a variance there. Just try and get simple with it like don't stress about it. Yeah try and simplify it I'll just keep learning I'll just keep trying to keep keep trying to learn off off off yeah better golfers but um yeah look at the end of the day the future will be you know you just don't know eh we just don't know what's ahead of us you know me mate's just battling with his what he's battling with so that that keeps me really grounded in just just today and just keep do today when you write your journal tonight and you look at it you go shit mate you've had a good day like you put in you you're showing this discipline and and I think I think just keep keep chip chipping away on that mate closing question my closing question we've actually been talking about through this whole time what is the meaning of life to you and I think I'm still I'm still searching like I'd be lying if I said I found it the meaning of life is understanding that we're we're we're a part of it. Be grateful to be a part of it learn learn from your mistakes is is definitely what life means to me and then not make them again and and then you'll you'll be closer to living the the life that you you deserve and my final question for you is if your younger self was listening to this what would you say to him if he would listen to me I would say buddy don't start drinking like just stay off the piss mate like do other stuff even just stay off the piss but like if I said to him I'd just say look mate it's gonna be all right man so just hang in there and uh just trust that you you you're not a bad fella.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:57

Love that thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:58

Thank you for sharing your story with us today and what you're doing what you've done your successes in life and with this going pro I think it's just awesome what you're doing man. To be you don't want to talk age or to be an age and still have a dream to achieve something that's never been done before. Yeah it feels that way. Yeah it I'm just really on your on your team. I'm on the Luke Brown team and thanks man cheering for you and I just yeah I I watch your journey on your documentary. Thanks both yeah just thank you again for this pleasure and yeah I'd love to do a follow up with you too for sure later yeah in the well let's do the end of the year and we'll we'll see if I've I've I've got I've done what I said I was gonna do and uh I'm confident. Thanks Luke Brown yeah if you want to check out his documentary on YouTube Going Pro.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:48

Yeah definitely going pro YouTube get on the Instagram too give come on give me some followers it's hard it's hard to get followers I don't know I've got to do some random stuff. Oh yeah going pro Going Pro underscore official easy to find just put it in Going Pro. Yeah punch it in yeah punch it in give him a follow yeah give us a follow yeah give him a follow and us too bridges nah in all seriousness I when you when you reached out and I was OS I was like nah like not going on you know he won't they won't come back to me anyway so sweet and then you came back and I was like shit we'll stuff it let's do it because I I felt I can I committed to you and you followed up and I thought this is just how I live my life like I said I was gonna do it at least in a roundabout way yeah and I thought let's just go and do it. So it's the first time I've done it so I really appreciate it. Very relaxed environment mate and I hope I didn't get too lost in you know my my life like I I don't know what my key messages are like Morgan said just I said should I take notes? She said no she said just don't get don't get sidetracked and and don't don't get off topic and I said this is this morning in the beach in the in the surf like right before I got in the car to come and I said done so you want me in between now and going to to T and Renee's place to learn how to be someone different you know she said uh yeah probably a bit tough uh maybe take some notes you've done amazing you've done awesome thank you so much for being here it's been a pleasure having a chat to you yeah it's been great no I really appreciate it it's um it's a first for me and I and I think it's I think it's helped me I think it's I think it's part of my growth and and part of sort of fine tuning some of these questions that that we're asking ourselves so I I really appreciate the opportunity yeah great thank you yeah no thank you and the way we go with this I always go ladies ladies thanks guys thank you yeah that was good